Please don't misunderstand my intentions here- I'm pansexual and just as in love and lust with the boyfolk as I am with the gals- I'm usually the first complaining about the fact that I have to switch DVD's or websites if I want to get my fill of [real] lesbian porn, straight porn, and gay porn all in one shot.

But at the same time, with a name like "Good Dyke Porn", there's really not much leeway, at least for the literally-minded, for men to be in the equation. What with this site featuring the sexy Andre, and The Crash Pad Series hosting Ian Sparks, it seems like we're changing the definition of "lesbian porn" (not that it hadn't already been subtly challenged by the overlaps between lesbian and transmen communities).

So is "dyke" an aesthetic and a mindset before it is an orientation?

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.

"So is "dyke" an aesthetic and a mindset before it is an orientation?"

An excellent question and one I've been mulling. I'm a big ole perv and don't have any issues with including the gender spectrum in the porn I consume and enjoy. But what is 'dyke porn'?

Afraid I'm still mulling that over, I'm tending toward a mindset and aesthetic, rather than strict interpretation based on orientation. But I'm usually against strict interpretations in general.

Just wanted you to know that I appreciated the question and though I don't have an answer, you've got me thinking.

well i have to say im not interested in men what so ever but thats not to say there isn't a woman out there that might be bi and would like to see men as well as women in a good porn.

Interesting- that's a very tolerant and nice mindset. For some reason, I doubt that gay men subscribing to a gay male porn site would just shrug and say the same if women appeared to appeal to the bisexual man. Or am I wrong?

I'm still struggling with the idea, not so much of whether it fits- or is important that it fit- "dyke porn", but if the inclusion of cisgender guys on a lesbian site signifies a sort of betrayal to subscribers- are they not getting their money's worth (if they're the sorts who aren't interested in men/guys in porn whatsoever, that is). I still don't have an answer for it.

But I am thrilled to see some nice statements on the updated website, like "Gender and sexuality are not regulated here, only love and respect". That totally rocks.

Here's my 2 cents.

I don't think we can ever compare ourselves with gay men when it comes to openness about mixed-gender spaces or sexual fluidity. Women are champions for inclusivity (good or bad).

Personally, I see the man as a prop (and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't take offense to that). Women like different things and some may argue that there shouldn't be a dildo or there shouldn't be cake or there shouldn't be young beautiful femme women with perfect bodies or there shouldn't be a scene where a bio-guy is dressed up like a woman and then gets fucked in the ass.
I say there absolutely should be all of those things and MORE. Anything that serves our queer fantasies.

Well, just about anything. I've had other guy scenarios proposed to me and I'm pretty sure this gem of a scene is going to be rare indeed.

ok more of my thoughts here....what im thinking is im not the only one here looking to buy porn so its more like i am entering a store looking for what i like....not everything in the store is for me. So i shop find what i want and move on. I can say that at least two items on the website are not for me but i have to say the rest works out pretty good...so i got my moneys worth.

arianna, that's perfect!
That's exactly what I'm trying to achieve.

Everyone has such diverse interests and dyke porn can mean so much. So why not make a variety of scenes that a person can pick and choose from. As long as the scenes are being created by the queer women of my community I feel fairly comfortable that the expectations of "dyke porn" are being met.

Those are really great concepts!

I actually really like your explanation of "guys as props", Bren- it does sound a little objectification-y, but it fits with a lot of experiences of women I know- lesbian-identified chicks who enjoy the occasional straight fantasy. I think I'd kind of been coming at it from a "lesbian site means lesbian action" mindset more than the "lesbian site means portrayal of lesbian fantasies- regardless of whether they fit into a set mold" viewpoint, and I like that one infinitely better.

And you bring up a good point, Ariana, about picking and choosing scenes. I guess that's even easier now with the cool ability to buy individual clips (I've been meaning to tell you how awesome that is, Bren!).

I'm still puzzling out what constitutes true dyke porn and what doesn't. Whatever Bren and her women are comfortable actually doing is good in my book. I generally empathize more with the women in the scenes than the audience anyway. lol

I explore this further in a new blog post right here on Good Dyke Porn.

Do Men Belong in Dyke Porn?

That's a very good question.

I can give you a few more thoughts on why they do - and maybe why they don't.

Why they do:

1. Bisexual women are dykes too.

2. Dyke porn should be feminist and sex positive - meaning it does not tell out and out lies about the sexuality of the people who appear in it. Like this recently launched "lesbian" porn site does for example: http://www.lesbianfactor.com/
checkout the fake interviews (you may need to scroll to the right) http://www.lesbianfactor.com/girls.php

There are real bisexual dykes on the lesbian factor site btw. There maybe a few real lesbian dykes as well. And there definitely is some real sex. But the interviews read like they are written by a hack catering to half baked male fantasies about lesbians.

3. Good Dyke Porn already says: "This site features real, amateur, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, queer sex captured on video by Bren Ryder and other incredible members of Team Good Dyke Porn." Well - real bisexual sex can't really completely exclude bio males can it?

Why they don't:

1. Bisexual women aren't called dykes because they are attracted to men as well as women.

Meh. That site looks like typical faux lesbian porn. I'll stick to the good stuff here, thanks.

ShyDaniel2112 wrote:

QUOTE:
Meh. That site looks like typical faux lesbian porn. I'll stick to the good stuff here, thanks. :D

These queer women who are featured on crashpadseries.com -
Rozen Debowe
Michelle Aston
Lorelei Lee
Dylan Ryan
http://crashpadseries.com/wordpress/characters/

Are also on the lesbianfactor website

Syd Blakovich who stars in Shine Louise Houston's new film "Champion" is as well. For anyone who doesn't know, Shine is the dyke who directs the Crash Pad series.

The notion that lesbian porn made for men just features str8 women pretending to be lesbian is very simplistic and naive. It's not the whole truth now and I don't think it ever has been. There are many genuine queer/bisexual women, and some lesbians, working in "mainstream" porn.

I see it as a highly complex issue about honesty and presentation regarding queer female sexuality specifically, and female sexuality in general.

There is some content on the Lesbian Factor that would not really be out of place on Good Dyke Porn - E.G. Michelle Aston and Fraulein & Syd Blakovich and Rozen Debowe. Because they are real queer women having real sex with each other.

Not that I'm encouraging anyone looking for real dyke porn to join Lesbian Factor. You're better off buying some of the L-Factor dvds (or watching them through VOD ) from which much of the paysite's content is taken from.

It seems to me that Bren is a dyke who wants to be honest about the diverse sexuality of the women she works with. That's why she doesn't pretend that all the women on Good Dyke Porn are homosexual. The people running the lesbianfactor site are a lot less honest about their content.

I understand that many lesbians do in fact work in the adult industry, don't get me wrong there. I just prefer the open honesty of Bren and her site. Honesty, to me, is a turn-on. By that standard, The L Factor isn't so interesting, while this place is Nirvana incarnate.

ShyDaniel2112 wrote:

QUOTE:
I understand that many lesbians do in fact work in the adult industry, don't get me wrong there.

With all due respect I suspect that your understanding is somewhat flawed and that you are almost certainly "wrong there".

There are undoubtedly a great many queer women who work in the adult industry, but not many of them are lesbians. Not to me, because a lesbian is a homosexual woman.

Bisexual women are routinely called lesbians by most of the adult industry because the word "lesbians" turns most men on a lot more than the phrases "bisexual women" or "queer women", bi-femme etc.

This is the very thing that I'm criticizing about the Lesbian Factor website. It's okay to call it lesbian porn because there are no men in it and all the sexual acts are homosexual acts between women. But it's very dishonest to pretend that these women are all basically "real" lesbians - especially when they are using the same stage names they use when they have sex with men in porn. The underlying message being conveyed is that a woman has to be a lesbian to enjoy sex with another women - which is utter nonsense. And a creepy implication that they only have sex with men for money is present in some of those fake "intimate, honest, real" profile interviews.

Tina Butcher - better known as the porn star Madison Young states that her orientation is Lesbian on her myspace page: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=216829889
However on her Femina Potens myspace she's put Not Sure. http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=130774446

I have no doubt that she is a queer dyke. But I cannot, with the best possible will in the world, accept her identifying as lesbian. Not even in her porn star persona. Because she is actively bisexual in porn as well as her private life. She currently has a bio male partner - James Mogul - I know she's also had same-sex relationships before him as well as other opposite-sex ones.

Madison is also on the Lesbian Factor site and in Houstons's Champion http://champion-movie.com/
and has also recently released her own movie, in which she stars as well as directs, called: Madison Young's "Lesbian Life: Real Sex San Francisco" http://femmesguide.com/archives/madison-youngs-lesbian-life-real-sex-san-francisco/

However if you want to see this "real lesbian" having sex, very kinky sex at that, with her boyfriend as well as a few other men and quite a few women just visit her official website: http://www.madisonbound.com/

It seems to me that Tina Butcher aka Madison Young is a real bisexual dyke. Not a real lesbian. But then maybe it turns her on to call herself lesbian - I wouldn't mind betting it turns her boyfriend on that she does. Especially when he's got her tied up and she's sucking his big man dick.

Fair enough. I don't pretend to know details of popular adult industry stars. All I know is that I prefer the honesty of this site to sites like The Lesbian Factor. Bren is open, honest, and approachable. She seems like someone I'd like to chat with and get to know. There's none of that approachability over on The Lesbian Factor. I'd rather pay to see people I can think of as friends than people I don't know and will never have a chance to know. I'm thirty-four and this is the first site I've ever paid to see, and this forum and the opportunity to talk to the people involved was as much, if not more, of an influence on me joining as the porn itself.

Well ShyDaniel2112 the reasons you like Bren's Good Dyke Porn are similar to my own

I dunno if I'm odd in this, but when I watch porn I find myself wondering what sort of people the girls are... What they're like in person, what they think of what they do and how the feel about the people who watch them. Bren's interviews are the greatest attraction to me because I get to find out those things.

The amazing thing about creating something new - like we are - is that everyone can have different preferences regarding what they like.

Geri, I can see what you're trying to express about identifying sexuality. On one hand, I think it's a complex issue on the other hand, its fairly simple. For me, as long is the content is queer then I'm not so concerned about their sexual orientation or gender identity.

Next month we will have some more men on the site and their gender and sexual identities are blurry.

As a woman with an ambiguous gender, I tend to wonder why do you need to know one way or the other?

Just let it be.

Bren, you're awesome just as you are. I wouldn't change anything about you or anyone else I've seen on your site.